Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Products » Cameras




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:51 am
Posts: 2053
chripell is correct, there is no difference actually
anyway, seems some user used to the old way
we can change it back in our next release

_________________
ZWO Founder
Location:lon=120.6 lat=31.3
SuZhou China


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:12 pm
Posts: 9
Thanks Sam. I would really appreciate if you could revert the driver & SDK to the standard binning operation. I welcome additional features in the SDK like averaging but please keep behavior of standard operations such as binning intact. It really helps avoid confusion and makes the cameras more user friendly.

I really enjoy using ZWO cameras (have quite a few of them!) and appreciate your contributions to our hobby.

Separately, I would like to clarify why it is helpful to have the standard binning operation.

Firstly, not everyone is post processing all the time. When I am observing live at the scope I don't have the benefit of picking my binning approach after the fact. My preference is for binning to work like binning... adding the signal from adjacent pixels to manage etendue i.e. energy per pixel, creating a brighter image.

Secondly, averaging across spatial and temporal domains is not conceptually equivalent. When you are averaging adjacent pixels in an image it is not the same as averaging to remove noise at the same spatial coordinate across multiple frames or exposures. The statistical process that occurs when averaging across frames to reduce noise and bring out the signal does not apply to spatial averaging which is a different process conceptually.

Hiten


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:51 am
Posts: 2053
Hs9 wrote:
Thanks Sam. I would really appreciate if you could revert the driver & SDK to the standard binning operation. I welcome additional features in the SDK like averaging but please keep behavior of standard operations such as binning intact. It really helps avoid confusion and makes the cameras more user friendly.

I really enjoy using ZWO cameras (have quite a few of them!) and appreciate your contributions to our hobby.

Separately, I would like to clarify why it is helpful to have the standard binning operation.

Firstly, not everyone is post processing all the time. When I am observing live at the scope I don't have the benefit of picking my binning approach after the fact. My preference is for binning to work like binning... adding the signal from adjacent pixels to manage etendue i.e. energy per pixel, creating a brighter image.

Secondly, averaging across spatial and temporal domains is not conceptually equivalent. When you are averaging adjacent pixels in an image it is not the same as averaging to remove noise at the same spatial coordinate across multiple frames or exposures. The statistical process that occurs when averaging across frames to reduce noise and bring out the signal does not apply to spatial averaging which is a different process conceptually.

Hiten


thanks Hiten

_________________
ZWO Founder
Location:lon=120.6 lat=31.3
SuZhou China


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:12 pm
Posts: 9
Sam,
I was reading the release notes for the latest SDK and it seems the SDK is still avaraging instead of binning in the 16 bit mode. Is this correct? Not sure if I am reading it correctly .

If so, can you explain why x2 bin in 16 bit mode does not bin.

Thanks
Hiten


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:11 am
Posts: 1
Hi,
I'm reading this topic and I'm little concerned, because I'm going to buy ASI290MM-C. What about bin2 with ASCOM driver (e.g. MaximDL). Is it sum (as I hope) or AVG ?


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:51 am
Posts: 2053
we changed it back in our latest SDK

as the ADC is 12bit when you run at 16bit mode
after binning the data is 14bit
we put the 14bit data in the high 14bit of 16bit format

_________________
ZWO Founder
Location:lon=120.6 lat=31.3
SuZhou China


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:39 am
Posts: 1
Hi Sam

Thanks for the update... Then, the new SDK also includes the change for the ASI 178MC?

The thing is that when I bin in Sharpcap (latest version with latest SDK) at RGB24 binning works ok, but in RAW16, it doesn't... In fact, the histogram is almost identical in both pictures (binned and unbinned)... with the same luminosity values compared over the same areas...

Why my 178mc doesn't sum values binning in raw16?

Thanks,
KR, Miguel


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:51 am
Posts: 2053
sangon wrote:
Hi Sam

Thanks for the update... Then, the new SDK also includes the change for the ASI 178MC?

The thing is that when I bin in Sharpcap (latest version with latest SDK) at RGB24 binning works ok, but in RAW16, it doesn't... In fact, the histogram is almost identical in both pictures (binned and unbinned)... with the same luminosity values compared over the same areas...

Why my 178mc doesn't sum values binning in raw16?

Thanks,
KR, Miguel

178 has 14bit ADC, we put it at high 14bit data of 16bit
sum up just exactly 16bit
so you cannot tell from the luminosity value, but the SNR changed

_________________
ZWO Founder
Location:lon=120.6 lat=31.3
SuZhou China


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:43 pm
Posts: 27
Hi, I saw that software and hardware binning are behaving differently in my ASI1600mm, with software binning being much darker. Since I'm using Linux SDK, is this because the additive algorithm has been restored only on the Windows SDK?
If so, could you restore it on the Linux version too?

Thanks,
Marco.

_________________
My blog: http://blog.gulinux.net


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:51 am
Posts: 2053
the hardware binning of 1600 is different from other cameras
the brightness will increase by 4X if you choose hardware binning
you cannot see from the image if you enable software binning under RAW16
the brightness will increase by 4X too if you choose RAW8 output

_________________
ZWO Founder
Location:lon=120.6 lat=31.3
SuZhou China


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Board index » Products » Cameras


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: